News Conference, January 5, 2001: Called to Common Mission Celebration
Episcopal News Service. January 8, 2001 [2001-2]
Participants:
ECUSA Presiding Bishop Frank Tracy Griswold (FTG)
ELCA Presiding Bishop H. George Anderson (HGA)
ECUSA The Rev. Canon David W. Perry (DWP)
ELCA The Rev. Daniel F. Martensen (DFM)
(Following introductory remarks by John Brooks, ELCA News Service.)
FTG: I was just thinking we're in Washington, a polarized city with a government that seems to live with a great deal of angularity and is trying to find a common center. And so my sense is that entering into full communion, among other things, is a sign to a divided world that at least the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and the Episcopal Church can make common cause together and therefore I think our entering into full communion is a sign of hope.
I also think that if the churches are going to preach a gospel of reconciliation, they have to be able to live in a reconciled manner themselves. And certainly entering into full communion enhances our capacity to speak with one voice to a broken world while respecting our two traditions.
I also am aware that entering into full communion is a stage along the way that has already been established; a great deal has been done between our two churches both nationally and locally, and so tomorrow's liturgy simply marks a stage in a relationship that has already begun, and tomorrow in no way is the end; tomorrow really is the formal liturgical recognition and beginning of a long process of growing together, sharing together, and trying to respond out of our two traditions together to God's call to minister to a broken world.
HGA: I would certainly echo many of those sentiments and hopes. To me the opportunity for full communion is to deepen a relationship that has been casual and longstanding over many, many years. But this is a step in which we take on new responsibilities to each other. I've already noticed how our relationship has facilitated staff, for example, talking together on many issues about their common work, and the possibilities that lie ahead. So within the larger frame, it seems to me that one of the gifts that full communion brings is the opportunity to discover gifts that each of the churches has, which it can use to share with the other in the challenges that we face as church bodies today in a very secular society and world.
The other thing I would mention is that I believe that this relationship of full communion can be an encouragement to other church bodies who are in one way or another working toward some fuller relationship, and it says it can be done, and when it is done there can be benefits and possibilities beyond the ones that we assume from the beginning.
So I am pleased that there will be other ecumenical representatives here, because it is in my view just one example of God's continued gathering of God's people.
Larry Witham, Washington Times: Could both of the presiding bishops comment briefly on what is the toughest part of this full communion? We hear more about what's happening in Lutheran circles, perhaps, but if there's one area that's toughest to work through with your constituents, what might those be?
HGA: Are you asking what are the issues that have arisen because we've entered into this, or what are we finding difficult as churches to do together?
LW: Either where is the opposition, or where is it not working as you would have expected.
HGA: I could say certainly you've mentioned already that there has been opposition from Lutherans, and that is one of the things that I'm hoping we can address, first by demonstrating that the process of full communion and what it means will not bring some of the fearful consequences that some of our folks are assuming. And secondly, that we can work with them to try to make this relationship one that they also will see as God-pleasing, and ultimately for the good of the whole church, the whole church of Christ.
FTG: The only comment I would make is that communion is an organic relationship. It's not a document, nor is it a set of legislative criteria, although documents and legislative criteria do enter into it along the way. But it really is a living relationship, and my hope and prayer would be that any fears or anxieties that presently exist in either of our communities would be resolved over time through the living of the relationship.
I certainly see this happen in the Episcopal Church, not with respect to our entering into full communion with the Evangelical Lutheran church, but I've seen this with respect to, for instance, the ordination of women. Over time and through the actual experience of the ministry of ordained women, a great deal of the anxiety simply faded away--not because anyone was argued out of something, but we simply lived into a new consciousness. I think that's really the way we need to look at this relationship.
Jerry Hames, Episcopal Life: I'd like to ask Bishop Griswold or one of the ecumenical officers--you mentioned full communion as a stage along the way. What are some of the other issues that are going to be discussed by the two denominations in the coming year?
FTG: I'd like to ask the ecumenical officers to comment on that.
DWP: In your earlier comment, I--this is really just the beginning. It moves some distance but it's really a new beginning in terms of our life and witness together. In my opinion, that's where some of the tough stuff may emerge as well. We have to learn to understand and to listen to each other, to hear one another's priorities and issues and maybe hear those in a new way. And then, maybe give up some of our competitiveness or selfishness about how we think those actions for mission should be addressed.
We will hold the first meeting of the Joint Coordinating Committee, a special committee created that will assist in the identification of those issues which our two churches will be asked to engage and to address. That meeting will be here in Washington. Seven members from each of our two churches will be present. My guess is that the agendas will be very similar about the issues that our two churches will want to address together. My experience of sitting with the Lutheran Council over the last four years, often their agendas are the same agendas that are before us as Episcopalians.
DFM: The only thing I would add to that would be that we as members of the ELCA are presently now as of January 1 in full communion with five churches here in the United States, and our experience since 1997 in being in full communion with the three Reformed churches has led to some surprising new developments, things that people in the dialogue itself over those twenty, thirty years never anticipated would be the case. At a recent meeting we found that in areas of ministry exchange, such as this document will facilitate now, in the ELCA and the Episcopal Church, there was also tremendous overlap in matters of local outreach, local mission extension, multicultural ministry, women's work, youth work. The pensions people are gathering and also the global missions staff have been gathering. We have a document now that indicates where all around the world these churches with whom we are now in full communion are present with each other. And that begins a very concrete process of looking at cooperative possibilities, where one clergy person in our case could represent both the Anglican or the Lutheran tradition in East Africa, South Africa, El Salvador, for example.
So those would be concrete examples that would come out of our experience with our other full communion relationships.
Christopher Hershman, Word Alone Network News: What are your reactions to the hundreds of Lutheran or ELCA congregations that have taken one form of formal action or another, that this action changes Lutheran theology and is totally unacceptable to the Lutheran tradition?
HGA: I think that saying 'hundreds of congregations'--congregations have taken actions stating their opinions and their concerns about the full communion arrangement in various ways. There are a few boilerplate protests that have been circulated, but I've noticed in the mail I've gotten that there are various concerns. Some are simply ill-informed. Others are, as you have indicated, issues of theology that congregations are concerned about. We need to work with those congregations and discuss those issues.
Kevin Eckstrom, Religion News Service: I know that this is far from an outright merger between the two churches, and I don't think anyone in either circle sees that it is. But is this the first step towards perhaps an eventual merger between the Episcopal and Lutheran churches?
FTG: What we shall be has yet to be revealed, to quote from one of the letters of John. You've made a point that I think is important. Being in communion--which is a very ancient principle; this is nothing new--being in communion does not mean merging. Being in communion means respecting one another's traditions, be they liturgical, linguistic, cultural, theological, but recognizing that there is a sufficient commonality of faith so that those two entities can share life in Christ to the full. And that's symbolized, of course, by being able to participate together in one another's Eucharists.
What remains to happen in the future, I would not begin to anticipate. All I know is that God is a God of surprises, and often our tidy little plans get smashed and transformed in ways well past our imagining. So what the future may hold I am anxious to experience, not on my own terms but on God's terms.
Jim Rosenthal, Anglican Communion News Service: In light of the flourishing relationships between Lutherans and Anglicans in other parts of the world, and especially in light of, in the country I live in, the Porvoo agreement which has certainly been a huge success, has that helped in this whole process here in America?
HGA: I would say it's been largely a parallel development, and therefore while there's been certainly an encouragement in knowing that what we are doing here is something that's occurring elsewhere, I think that our own dialogue and our own interrelationship matured over several decades here within the particular context of the American churches, which is so different from the way that churches in Europe are related.
DFM: We are part of the Lutheran World Federation, roughly 58 millions of Lutherans in the world with whom we are in full communion, and the LWF has had dialogues now with the Anglican Consultative Council for a long time. Actually Lambeth and the Church of Sweden conversation began in 1909, so it's been nearly a century that we've had contacts between our two communions.
The only thing I would add to what Bishop Anderson said was that the two have gone on simultaneously, the national dialogues and the international or world-level dialogues, and two important documents have fed into our process here over the years. One was 1984, with the Cold Ash Report, which came out between the Anglican Consultative Council and the Lutheran World Federation, and some years later, in '87, the Niagara Report was produced at a consultation which dealt with the very controversial and delicate issue of ministry, how we understand ministry, how we understand the office of the bishop. All of that has fed into our thirty years of dialogue here in the United States. So I do not see them to be separate, and certainly there would be fallout internationally, from not only the Porvoo agreement in Europe but certainly what's happening and has happened here in the United States.
With Anglican-Lutheran relations in El Salvador, in East Africa, South Africa, for example, would be prime examples where they're looking for, not models to be copied, but experiences upon which to build, and we would be one more of those now, as of the first of this year.
Auburn Traycik, Christian Challenge: Returning for just a moment to the difficulties of achieving full communion, we discussed some of the difficulties on the Lutheran side. On the Anglican side, some are uncomfortable about the temporary suspension of the Episcopal ordinal's preface to allow current and non-episcopally ordained ELCA clergy to serve in ECUSA parishes, and some feel that might be at odds with the Lambeth Quadrilateral. How, Bishop Griswold, would you answer those...?
FTG: I would say quite simply that the--first of all, I recognize that there is that sentiment among some. But then I would say the larger anomaly is Christian disunion, and a lack of communion, and the lesser anomaly is in fact to temporarily, as you said, temporarily suspend the provisions of the ordinal in order that something larger might occur and that we might enter into a fuller relationship. So I accept lesser anomalies for the sake of overcoming larger ones.
Bob Williams, Diocese of Los Angeles (ECUSA): Last Sunday in Los Angeles, we were pleased to have joint synodical and diocesan liturgies on Sunday morning celebrating full communion. I wonder if you know of other examples in other dioceses and synods around the country where particularly good things are happening as a result of this?
DWP: I personally applaud the Diocese of Los Angeles and the Lutheran synods in that part of the world; since that's my home diocese, I'm especially grateful for that celebration.
It is true that there are diocesan and synodical celebrations all over the country. Recently retired bishop Rustin Kimsey is sitting here, and I think there are special plans and celebrations in February that will take place with the Lutheran synod in Oregon. I think it's true throughout the country that those parish-to-parish celebrations as well as larger and in some cases regional celebrations are being observed.
If I could also note, we were mentioning the global dimensions of our relationship of full communion, how it's being seen--I received a letter from one of our bishops, the bishop of Taiwan, John Chan, who wrote to me his regrets in not being able to be present here in Washington for the celebration, and indicated the celebration that was in fact taking place in the hearts of parishioners in a congregation in his diocese that could not be served by an Episcopal clergy person and a Lutheran pastor was aiding in that situation. That's another kind of a celebration that I think we're especially grateful for, but that's a letter from Taiwan that I think is a part of our celebration today.
DFM: Part of what's happening, as you know, in New York City--and this is my home synod, so I welcome you to Washington, D.C.; also, I'm proud, as David is, that there'll be activities initiated here of some importance--and I understand also Baltimore, Houston, many places in the Southeast, in Atlanta, and elsewhere we hear of plans for this. We don't have a complete list yet but it looks to be pretty extensive. And the liturgy being used tomorrow will serve as a base, perhaps to be used around the country, or portions of it.
Charles Austin, The Record (Hackensack, NJ): Much of the discussion leading to this focused on the nature of ministry and the nature of the episcopate. Now we're at a time in both churches where there are clergy being ordained illicitly, bishops being ordained illicitly, clergy who may not be on the roster of the ELCA serving ELCA congregations--there's a certain messiness in the nature of some of those clergy. Do you think those will have any impact long-term, or what are your plans for dealing with these kinds of things?
FTG: I tend not to answer hypothetical questions, because I find myself often proven wrong by what I think may or may not happen. If you look at church history, you will see that ambiguity, paradox and contradiction have always been part of the life of the church, and we live through these things as gracefully as possible, and in many, many instances they resolve themselves over time by simply being patient, and extending always to one another the courtesy of Christ.
Gracia Grindal, Word Alone Network News: A new national poll conducted last week by "the polling company" revealed that 73% of the members of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America know little to nothing about this agreement. How do you expect to sell this to these people when the agreement goes fundamentally against their notion of the freedom of the Gospel?
HGA: If 73% don't understand what's happened, then it's hard to tell yet whether what has happened goes against their understanding of the Gospel.
I think that this matter has been discussed very fully in our church, and if persons do not yet know about it, we are certainly willing and ready to give them any information and continue the effort to try to interpret clearly what the agreement does imply and what it does not imply. So I hope we can talk with these people and make sure they understand fully what has occurred, what I believe God has done with our church in relation to another Christian body.
Jeff Sheler, US News and World Report: On the procedures for clergy sharing, I'm wondering if you have any concept or idea of the magnitude of that, how it will work out--in other words, do you have any sense of how many congregations or potential congregations or parishes are really candidates for having leadership from the other tradition?
DFM: The Episcopal and Lutheran bishops in the southeast part of the United States spoke about this in some public setting and recognized somewhere between 15 and 20 possibilities for the opening of new mission outreach ministries which would be facilitated by this, and they were not capable of starting it until this official exchange of pastors under Called to Common Mission were to be implement. That'd be one example; I can't answer that elsewhere in the country. I think that's probably typical of many other...
DWP: I think we haven't an exact count, we have a close count, but we have heard a number of situations where there is interest about beginning something. And the truth is, some things have been going on for some time that will now be regarded as 'legal,' if you will. So I think that the mission field is, in some sense has been underway. I think the document that Dan Martensen referred to earlier should be an encouragement and a help to the dioceses and synods to look at the possibility of clergy sharing. And this could take place in rural settings, again as in the case Bishop Kimsey identified earlier from Eastern Oregon, as well as in urban settings and other ministries. But I think that we'll find our way along the way; I think there are going to be some surprises, but I think the interest, the hunger, and God knows, the need for common mission is certainly present.
Jeff Sheler: To the extent that--would you expect that this would be a situation where an established parish needs a minister, their minister is retiring or for whatever reason left, and they began a search process for a replacement. Would you expect names from both denominations to be brought before a congregation, or is that really not what is envisioned?
DWP: I think the provisions of Called to Common Mission itself don't really foresee a sort of mass defection movement, if you will, in that sense of people moving from one church to the other. I don't think that that's in the mind of what's being offered in this work.
But what I do think is in certain situations where there are no Episcopal clergy or few Episcopal clergy, we may find that there may be Lutheran congregations with clergy, or clergy that are available in those regions that could facilitate or serve as a clergyperson in that place. There may be specialized ministries that Lutherans may have that are underdeveloped in terms of our Episcopal Church experience; we may have an opportunity to interchange in that way.
But we will continue to have our hiring practices and policies that are distinct and unique to each of our churches, and the procedures that are in place right now will continue for our two churches. But I think there will be a welcomeness and an openness to the possibility that we can support and assist each other in the exchange of ordained clergy.
Alan Elsner, Reuters: Can you explain to me, who is neither a Lutheran nor an Episcopalian nor even a Christian, what if any the doctrinal or theological differences that still remain between you?
HGA: Well, I could start. Frank will, if I miss any...Actually, the doctrinal foundation is very broad and very much the same. That was one of the reasons that the document we used to get together, called Called to Common Mission, begins with a review of doctrinal positions of the two churches. We both share the very long historic Christian creeds, and then we've gone on to elaborate specific other areas of theology. It's on that kind of theological agreement that we felt comfortable in moving ahead with full communion. The issues between us have been most generally issues on how we structure our ministries, rather than on...
FTG: I would add to what Bishop Anderson has said, we are both liturgical traditions, which means that we share a heritage that is quite similar. Therefore our capacity to find ourselves at home in one another's liturgies is almost immediate. As Bishop Anderson said, some of the ways in which we structure the internal life of the church offers some divergence, and that's precisely what the Called to Common Mission seeks to provide for and in some ways overcome as we look to the future.